Have you ever seen a UFO? Interview #9

“Yes. On two separate occasions. Once as a child and once as an adult.”

The below is an interview, via a chat client, with Brother Arvin Hill. The sightings are two which occurred in Texas, outside of Dallas and in Denton county.

Idyllopus Press: Soooo…you want to jump right into it?

Brother Arvin: Ready.

Idyllopus Press: The first question is always…have you ever seen a UFO?

Brother Arvin: Yes. On two separate occasions. Once as a child and once as an adult.

Idyllopus Press: Tell me about the first. (That’s great, two instances.)

Brother Arvin: I was eleven or twelve years old. I believe it was sixth grade.

Brother Arvin: It was about 7:45 a.m. Beautiful spring morning. Clear skies. A family down the street was going to give me a ride to school. Sometimes I walked, but for whatever reason, I didn’t that day….

Idyllopus Press: Was this in Texas?

Brother Arvin: Yes. Mesquite, Texas. A suburb of Dallas.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: My neighbors were one of those chaotic families. Three kids and a loud, obnoxious mother. I went into their house and waited for them to finish getting ready for school. Probably five minutes or so…

“I looked…in the direction of the school, and there in the sky was this large spherical metallic object.”

Brother Arvin: Then we all exited the house and began piling into the car. So there were at least four kids, a couple younger than me; one my own age. And as we were about to get into the car, for some reason, I looked up. The street ran east / west. I looked to the east, which was in the direction of the school, and there in the sky was this large spherical metallic object.

Brother Arvin: At first, I thought it was the moon.

Brother Arvin: I pointed at it and said (to anyone who would listen) “What is that?”

Brother Arvin: And I remember the kids’ mother looking over her shoulder – remember, we’re loading up into the car – and very quickly returning attention to the task at hand, which was getting us all to school. It was as though it didn’t really register with her.

Idyllopus Press: Interesting.

Brother Arvin: None of the kids were the least bit interested.

Brother Arvin: And I was still thinking, “Can that be the moon?” I knew about UFO’s, but it didn’t really occur to me that it was a UFO.

Brother Arvin: I just didn’t know.

Brother Arvin: But I was SO curious. I kept thinking about it, and watching it. And it was perfectly still. Silent.

Idyllopus Press: You’re the only one watching it…

Brother Arvin: That’s right.

Brother Arvin: The size was impressive.

Brother Arvin: Let’s see if I can give you an idea.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Idyllopus Press: And how high up might you say it was?

Brother Arvin: I really have no idea.

Brother Arvin: But if I was to extend my arm and make a fist, I’d say it was probably about 25% the size of fist.

Brother Arvin: That’s pretty big.

Idyllopus Press: And it was certainly large enough for you to see it as having a metallic kind of sheen.

Brother Arvin: It looked to be higher than the altitude that we usually saw planes flying.

Idyllopus Press: Did it stay up there? Was it in one position or moving?

Brother Arvin: Love Field was nearby. At that time, you could see the Dallas skyline from certain vantage points in my neighborhood.

Brother Arvin: It was perfectly still.

Idyllopus Press: So how did this resolve? Did it disappear from sight as you guys drove away from it?

Brother Arvin: I got stuck in the middle of the car, so I couldn’t see out the window well. But the second we arrived at the school – I’d say about 5-7 minutes – I got out and looked up. At the time, I was still wondering if it was the moon, but I had my doubts. It was pretty luminous, really mostly white.

Idyllopus Press: I’ve got this image in my head of a kind of Twilight Zone or David Lynchian thing where the camera follows little Arvin looking out the car window up at the sky at this object and all else oblivious.

Idyllopus Press: Twilight Zone or…not of…

Idyllopus Press: But you were sitting in the middle of the car so there goes that.

Brother Arvin: Well, it was driving me crazy on the way to school. Mostly because nobody else was interested. They weren’t the brightest kids on earth.

Idyllopus Press: So it was still there in the sky when you arrived at school?

Brother Arvin: And so when I exited the car, I looked up and what do I see? The same object, only smaller – about 3/4 to 1/2 the size as when I first saw it. It had changed position, but I still could not really detect movement. I would have had to just stand there for a few minutes, I think, in order to see it move. So, it was a slow departure.

Idyllopus Press: What year was this?

Brother Arvin: 1974 or 1975.

Idyllopus Press: If someone said to you, “It was a weather balloon”, what would you say?

Brother Arvin: Well, that was always the explanation back then. But, no, this was spherical. And my impression was that it was very large.

Idyllopus Press: OK. Because that’s what most people would say. “Weather balloon.” But you saw it was spherical and very large.

Brother Arvin: That’s right.

Idyllopus Press: When did you realize, “UFO!”

Brother Arvin: Also, when I scanned the sky before I had to go into the school building, I saw the moon.

Brother Arvin: And it was the moon.

Idyllopus Press: Where was the moon in relationship to it, do you remember?

Brother Arvin: Actually, I think I got a fact wrong earlier.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: It wasn’t in the eastern sky, it was in the western sky.

Brother Arvin: I think so, anyway.

Idyllopus Press: When you say it was spherical, do you mean you saw it as globular, that it had a sense of dimension?

Brother Arvin: I don’t know understand. It was like a white ball in mid-air.

Idyllopus Press: Yes, that’s what I mean.

Brother Arvin: Right.

Idyllopus Press: What were your feelings after having seen it? Anything different from before?

Brother Arvin: The way I recall it, the moon was easterly; the object was in the western sky.

Brother Arvin: But I could see both of them!

Brother Arvin: And that’s when I thought UFO!

Idyllopus Press: Did you tell anyone?

Idyllopus Press: At school, I mean. And then at home.

Brother Arvin: I’m not certain. I seem to recall telling a friend of mine, Randy.

Idyllopus Press: So it’s not something you felt compelled to talk about.

Brother Arvin: But I was disenchanted with the one adult I tried to get to look at the damn thing.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: And she ignored it.

Idyllopus Press: So others might probably ignore it if she did, you assumed.

Brother Arvin: Yes. Actually – and I do remember this – I figured if I said anything, other people would just say “It’s a weather balloon, dummy.” And I knew it wasn’t.

Idyllopus Press: Did it instill in you a sense of curiosity about these things or was that already there?

Brother Arvin: It was already there, but only as one of many interests. I was never obsessive about it. I loved things that were space-related, science-related.

So let’s leap ahead–how many years?–to your second UFO sighting.

Idyllopus Press: So let’s leap ahead–how many years?–to your second UFO sighting.

Brother Arvin: Wow. Let me count ’em up.

Brother Arvin: Thirty years.

Idyllopus Press: Again, in Texas?

Brother Arvin: Yes.

Brother Arvin: Northeastern Denton County.

Idyllopus Press: It wasn’t that long ago.

Brother Arvin: No, it wasn’t. I believe it was 2005.

Idyllopus Press: Time of year?

Brother Arvin: I’m pretty sure it was early January.

Brother Arvin: This was a night sighting.

Idyllopus Press: Eager to hear about it.

Brother Arvin: Okay. My sister-in-law (my wife’s sister) and her two kids had moved in with us.

Brother Arvin: And she wasn’t working at the time. It was late. Around 12:30 a.m. or so. My sister-in-law is a night owl and so am I. She went outside on the back patio to smoke a cigarette. I went with her just to chat. The sky was clear. No moon.

Brother Arvin: Stars were bright. And she’s smoking her cigarette. We’re both standing a few feet from the back porch. And I looked up – it was one of those nights where you can imagine that you’re looking at the end of the universe.

Idyllopus Press: A lot of stars? Not a lot of light pollution?

Brother Arvin: Not a lot. To the south, it’s less clear because there’s a small highway a few miles in that direction.

Brother Arvin: I was looking to the north. And I told L., my sister-in-law, “I’ll bet we can see some satellites out here tonight.”

Brother Arvin: And we talked about satellites for a while. I had learned how to see them while camping in East Texas.

Brother Arvin: So that’s what I was looking for.

Idyllopus Press: Right. You’re experienced in looking for satellites. You know one when you see it.

Brother Arvin: I feel reasonably comfortable saying I can spot a satellite.

Brother Arvin: I’ve not studied them or anything.

Idyllopus Press: 🙂

Idyllopus Press: Damn, I hate smiley faces.

Brother Arvin: Ha!

Brother Arvin: So, I detect some movement in the northern sky. It was very faint. Slow. At first, I could only see it peripherally.

“If I tried to look *directly* at it, it was undetectable. But by looking slightly away from it, it was plain as day.”

Brother Arvin: In other words, if I tried to look *directly* at it, it was undetectable.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: But by looking slightly away from it, it was plain as day. Still faint, but easy to identify.

Brother Arvin: And I said to L., “There’s one right there.”

Idyllopus Press: A light that you weren’t able to see straight on.

Brother Arvin: Correct. Not at first, anyway.

Brother Arvin: It looked much higher than the satellites I’d seen.

Brother Arvin: And it was slower.

Brother Arvin: And L. looked up – she wears glasses and I didn’t think she’d be able to see it because there were so many stars out that night and it was it so faint.

Brother Arvin: It took about a minute of me guiding her to it. Like me, if she couldn’t see it if she tried to look directly at it. But she finally did see it.

Brother Arvin: This is where it got strange.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: Suddenly, there were two.

Idyllopus Press: When you finally got her to see it, there were by then two…all of a sudden…at that point?

Brother Arvin: We watched the one for about thirty seconds before the second one appeared.

Brother Arvin: And I said “Wow, that’s strange.” I’ve never seen two satellites right next to each other.

“Less than a minute after we both saw the second one, a third one appeared. And then a fourth.”

Brother Arvin: Less than a minute after we both saw the second one, a third one appeared.

Brother Arvin: And then a fourth.

Idyllopus Press: You said they were moving slowly…toward you? In another direction?

Brother Arvin: I first saw it due north. It was moving – very smoothly and with the same illumination – in an east/southeast direction.

Brother Arvin: And I said “I have no idea what these things are, but they aren’t satellites.”

Brother Arvin: They kept multiplying right in front of our eyes.

Idyllopus Press: There were more?

Brother Arvin: Yes.

Idyllopus Press: How many??

Brother Arvin: It was as if the lead UFO was laying eggs. We counted thirteen.

Brother Arvin: They were all the same size.

Idyllopus Press: I was about to ask if they were materializing independently or if they were separating off from as if a parent light.

Idyllopus Press: So you’re saying that the lights were appearing to come out of the lead light?

Brother Arvin: Correct.

Idyllopus Press: Wow.

Idyllopus Press: Any kind of formation?

Brother Arvin: I feel strange just talking about it!

Brother Arvin: They were very clearly all staying together, more or less in a loose linear formation.

Brother Arvin: All the same speed and orientation.

Brother Arvin: And I felt this rush of excitement and awe and I couldn’t believe I had the good fortune to have a witness.

Idyllopus Press: I bet.

Brother Arvin: Especially after the first experience. Stupid grown-ups.

Idyllopus Press: Only now you’re the grown-up.

Brother Arvin: Technically.

Brother Arvin: They continued in the same direction throughout, and we watched them fade.

Idyllopus Press: How long did this take from beginning to end?

Brother Arvin: My best estimate is six or seven minutes.

Brother Arvin: Because of the altitude – and I’m certain they were very, very high – they had to be moving extremely fast.

Idyllopus Press: Oh, they were that high.

Brother Arvin: Yes.

Brother Arvin: They were not in the atmosphere.

Idyllopus Press: Right.

Brother Arvin: We came back into the house in shock.

Brother Arvin: I was thrilled.

Brother Arvin: I hadn’t thought about UFOs in a long time.

Idyllopus Press: OK, you weren’t out there at night, in general, looking for them. Satellites maybe, but not UFOs.

Brother Arvin: Correct.

Brother Arvin: It was the last thing I expected to see.

Brother Arvin: Two days later, we heard there were mass sightings in Mexico.

Idyllopus Press: OK. I bet those are on one of the UFO websites so a date could be hazarded possibly.

Brother Arvin: Yeah, I’m sure.

Idyllopus Press: What did this last sighting leave you with? Anything other than a sense of awe?

Brother Arvin: Yes, but it took a while germinate.

Idyllopus Press: Can you clarify this?

Idyllopus Press: Expand a little on it?

Brother Arvin: Well, I hate not knowing things. Hate it. I cannot stand being teased with eternal mysteries.

Idyllopus Press: There are so many.

Brother Arvin: Yes, there are.

Idyllopus Press: Even things which appear not to be.

Brother Arvin: EXACTLY.

Brother Arvin: So here’s the deal…

Brother Arvin: I told my wife about it and she was intrigued, and we talked about the Mexico sightings that were reported very shortly after the sighting, and then I pushed it right outta my mind.

Idyllopus Press: Funny that it exited your mind like that. Did the first sighting do the same?

Brother Arvin: Well, it’s not difficult to do. I’ve believed in extraterrestrial life for a long time.

Brother Arvin: So, it was like confirmation of something I already believed.

Brother Arvin: Especially the second time.

Idyllopus Press: OK. And then you get on with other things and concerns and it didn’t keep a strong signal against daily life.

Idyllopus Press: Kind of.

Brother Arvin: Right. Even when the mass sightings in Stephenville were going on earlier this spring, I paid very little attention to any of it.

Brother Arvin: I never went to any UFO sites or anything. Hell, the only thing I was hearing about it was on the local news. And I thought, “Cool.” And moved on.

Brother Arvin: (websites, I mean)

Idyllopus Press: Right.

Brother Arvin: I think I’m living on a UFO site. We all are.

Brother Arvin: Since I was on dial-up so many years, I hadn’t seen all the videos on YouTube.

Idyllopus Press: I’ve only seen a few UFO videos on the internet, actually. There was something in England, I think…and the Phoenix lights.

“The water is awfully muddy in terms of what people see, what they think they see, what they want to see, the hoaxes, the crazies…”

Brother Arvin: The water is awfully muddy in terms of what people see, what they think they see, what they want to see, the hoaxes, the crazies…

Idyllopus Press: Oh yeah.

Brother Arvin: And that’s one of the reasons I never got into any of that online.

Brother Arvin: I was in politics & current events mode. Which, as it turns out, is just as muddy as the UFO material.

Idyllopus Press: Yes, but with malice.

Brother Arvin: Exactly. And there’s quite a bit of malice in UFO circles, as well. The hoaxes piss me off. Some of it falls in the realm of the juvenile prank; others, I’m reasonably sure, are darker in origin. Disinformation and the like.

Idyllopus Press: You know, I was thinking about it while you were writing, and there is a lot of malice there as well. I confess I used to read a UFO newsgroup when I first came on the internet, ten years ago, and the UFO newsgroup would get kind of wild. But then it tends to be somewhat that way with newsgroups.

Brother Arvin: So it wasn’t until the last month that I started poking around in the UFO material online. And I did that because a guy I befriended directed me to Project Camelot and some interviews on YouTube with Bob Dean.

Idyllopus Press: I’ve not seen those.

Brother Arvin: They’re fascinating.

Idyllopus Press: I’ll look them up.

Brother Arvin: Do. I think it’s broken into 8 parts on YouTube.

Brother Arvin: I think the people who discuss these things openly, and people who have dedicated much of their lives to finding out what the truth is, are pretty courageous folks.

Brother Arvin: I was stunned when I saw that you were interviewing people about UFOs. Because I hadn’t been in the blogosphere for a while and I’ve been immersed in this stuff for the last month.

Idyllopus Press: Ha!

Brother Arvin: Yeah. I knew you had an appreciation of sci-fi, but I’d not seen you ever mention UFO’s.

Idyllopus Press: I had thought about doing it and had then decided I wouldn’t, then was lying there one night thinking I would do it, and H.o.p. had climbed into bed with us, was fast asleep between us, and as I rehearsed in my head, “Have you seen a UFO?” he spoke in his sleep and said, “They have found the aliens.”

Brother Arvin: I think he’s half-right.

Idyllopus Press: So I decided I should do this.

Idyllopus Press: Yeah, I have my own UFO sighting, of course.

Brother Arvin: I was hoping so.

Idyllopus Press: So you were saying…what did you carry away from this last one…what finally germinated?

Brother Arvin: Well, listening to Bob Dean last month and then hitting the MUFON site and UFOCASEBOOK and looking at photographs and even analyzing them in PhotoShop, I started to feel driven to find *something* other than “Boy, there sure are a lot of UFOs out there.”

Brother Arvin: And what really did it was the painting of “The Baptism of Jesus Christ” from the 18th century.

Idyllopus Press: Boy, you have been into it the past month or so. Analyzing photos in Photoshop…

Brother Arvin: Uh-huh.

Idyllopus Press: You’re going to tell me about it! I may have seen it.

Brother Arvin: I read “Chariots of the Gods” when I was a kid. That was the only UFO book I ever read. So I was familiar with the idea that they’ve always been here.

Idyllopus Press: If it’s one of these paintings that some say show a UFO as interpreted through religion.

Idyllopus Press: I’ve seen some that really are pretty bizarre.

Brother Arvin: As have I.

“And this is where things get REALLY weird.”

Brother Arvin: And this is where things get REALLY weird.

Idyllopus Press: You probably read “Chariots” after your first UFO sighting?

Brother Arvin: You know what? I had read it a year before my first sighting. Fifth grade.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: I’m pretty sure. It was definitely before the sighting. But never did I expect to see one.

Brother Arvin: So, the whole Christianity / UFO thing started drawing me in.

Brother Arvin: I’ve always been fascinated by Christianity, but was never a believer in church dogma.

Idyllopus Press: You’ve perhaps read the gnostics.

Brother Arvin: No, I haven’t. I’m actually not very well read.

Idyllopus Press: It’s better, sometimes, to read about reading about the gnostics, rather than to read them. Depends on who you read.

Brother Arvin: The whole metaphysical aspects of Christianity were always intriguing. I thought “All of these accounts cannot be entirely false.”

Brother Arvin: And, yet, I felt like a moron for even entertaining the thought.

Idyllopus Press: You mean perhaps as pertaining to mystics and their experiences?

Brother Arvin: I’ve always been suspicious of scientific dogma and reductionism.

Brother Arvin: And, yet, that is the prevailing belief system.

Brother Arvin: Here, anyway.

Idyllopus Press: Well, it can be sometimes a kissin’ cousin of religious literalism.

Brother Arvin: Exactly.

Brother Arvin: And I’ve long believed that of both ends of the spectrum as being debilitating for humankind.

Idyllopus Press: Right.

Brother Arvin: Lemme try that again. Fundamentalism sucks.

Brother Arvin: Scientific, religious or otherwise.

Brother Arvin: Then I started reading the www.bibleufo.com website.

Idyllopus Press: Haven’t seen that one.

Brother Arvin: Well, buckle up.

Brother Arvin: The research is astounding.

Brother Arvin: I knew there were biblical references to UFOs. I was only familiar with Ezekiel – the fiery wheel within a wheel and all that jazz. I’d forgotten about it.

Brother Arvin: I might as well just come right out and say it: I believe what I’ve read there.

Idyllopus Press: And that is…in general…

Brother Arvin: Well. I’ve read probably 75% of what’s there.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Idyllopus Press: Oh…I see…not as “in summation” but you believe what you have read there.

Brother Arvin: I never ever ever thought I would believe in anything that might be called “biblical prophecy.”

Brother Arvin: In the sense that church describes it, I don’t.

Brother Arvin: But what the church describes and what the bible says are two entirely different things.

Brother Arvin: I mean, really, I know a lot of people who call themselves Christians who rely solely upon whatever their Chuch-based consensus reality dictates.

Idyllopus Press: It takes an awfully damned long time to try to think through things on your own.

Brother Arvin: Yes, it does. And it’s not (usually) easy to say “Man, did I ever have all THAT wrong.”

Brother Arvin: Yet, this time, I have zero trouble saying “Okay, I just didn’t get it.”

Brother Arvin: There are other influences that kind of led me to the path I’m on now. It’s very complex.

Idyllopus Press: The bible is a big book and even though it’s been manhandled and chopped up quite a bit, it’s a big enough book to encompass a number of belief systems…but literalism, I don’t think, is one of them. Though literalism became the glue.

Brother Arvin: That’s pretty much what I thought, too. I considered the bible primarily one big fat metaphor.

Idyllopus Press: And when I say “a number of belief systems”, I think of them in terms of essentially complementary, even if unrecognized as being so.

Brother Arvin: Yeah, I always thought of myself as (sort of) a Unitarian.

“Many paths to the same mountain top.”

Brother Arvin: Many paths to the same mountain top.

Idyllopus Press: Yes.

Brother Arvin: I still believe that, but I can tell you that I now believe the bible is considerably more factually correct – and literal – than I ever thought, or thought I would think.

Brother Arvin: You are the first person I’ve expressed this to besides my wife.

Brother Arvin: And she’s just as blown away as I am.

Idyllopus Press: So this is something very new to you. And what has so blown you both away? In as few words as possible, what do you think the relationship between UFOs aliens and religion is?

Idyllopus Press: In as few words as possible…just to get to the very meat of the matter…though that’s difficult, I know.

Brother Arvin: For one thing, I no longer believe – as I did for many years – that God is simply a “system”. I believe early civilization was directly interfacing with intelligent life from somewhere other than Earth.

Brother Arvin: And I believe Jesus existed. And I believe he’s coming back. And I STILL can’t believe I am saying these things.

Idyllopus Press: So you think god is not a concoction of the human imagination, an attempt to give order to this world, but instead has something to do with extraterrestrial life?

Brother Arvin: That is exactly correct.

Idyllopus Press: Have you read P. K. Dick?

Brother Arvin: I still want nothing to do with churches or any religious community. No, I haven’t read P.K. Dick.

Brother Arvin: Should I?

Idyllopus Press: Yes.

Idyllopus Press: P.K. went through some very interesting experiences and wrote extensively in them.

Brother Arvin: To the list, he goes…

Idyllopus Press: To the top would be a good place.

Brother Arvin: Ha! So noted.

Idyllopus Press: I think he ought to be read in company with some of Robert Anton Wilson’s books.

Brother Arvin: I’ve actually always wanted to get around to RAW.

Idyllopus Press: In particular, the Cosmic Trigger books.

Brother Arvin: I’ve noted the suggestion.

Idyllopus Press: And Terrence McKenna wrote a very impressive book as well that fits right in with all this.

Brother Arvin: McKenna, I’m fairly familiar with. In large part because of my lifelong interest in hallucinogens.

Brother Arvin: I haven’t actually read any of his books, but I’ve read many excerpts and interviews.

Idyllopus Press: This particular book covers experiences he had in South America…and his brother as well. “True Hallucinations”.

Brother Arvin: I’m not totally unfamiliar with the DMT/Harmaline experience.

Idyllopus Press: The centerpiece of them all is how profoundly distracting it is when archetypes step right up and talk to you.

Idyllopus Press: They are all covering the same territory.

Brother Arvin: Yes, archetytpes. I always held Jung in high esteem.

Idyllopus Press: Which is always why my second question to people is what is the most interesting coincidence they’ve ever experienced.

Idyllopus Press: Coincidences and archetypally charged experiences tend to go hand in hand.

Idyllopus Press: They flutter around each other like butterflies.

Brother Arvin: That’s a tough one, because I don’t really believe in coincidence. I’ve had prophetic dreams.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: Alright. Here are the two strangest ones: First up…

Idyllopus Press: I mean really what is discussed as being apparently coincidence…by the way.

Brother Arvin: Gotcha.

Idyllopus Press: The books I’m referring you to are hinged together with coincidences.

Brother Arvin: I see.

Idyllopus Press: Now, you were saying…I didn’t mean to interrupt.

Brother Arvin: I was in the USAF for one hitch and worked on directly on the flight line as a structural repair technician.

Brother Arvin: One night, I had a dream that I was standing in the shop – the sheet metal shop where I worked every day – and was looking out the window toward the flight line.

Brother Arvin: And the recon plane – and RC-135 that was, shall we say, very special – could not lower the front landing wheel.

Brother Arvin: And it was pretty scary in the dream, very tense.

Brother Arvin: No one knew what to do. It was a hydraulics problem.

Brother Arvin: The hand crank – the emergency manual crank – wasn’t working, either. And that would be highly unusual.

Brother Arvin: Anyway, it was a short dream.

Brother Arvin: I woke up feeling very anxious.

Idyllopus Press: You woke up feeling perhaps it wasn’t just an ordinary dream? Not one caused by a tough piece of beef being digested…as Scrooge would say.

Brother Arvin: Exactly.

“I knew by then to pay attention to dreams involving planes because I had two when I was a little kid…”

Brother Arvin: I knew by then to pay attention to dreams involving planes because I had two when I was a little kid, and both times, there were plane crashes within 24-48 hours each time.

Brother Arvin: I know that sounds unbelievable.

Idyllopus Press: No, I believe you. I had the same happen to me once.

Idyllopus Press: I’m not skeptical at all.

Brother Arvin: That’s a relief.

Brother Arvin: I think I know why I have these dreams, but I’ll get to that in a minute.

Idyllopus Press: I mean once concerning a plane. I’m quite acquainted with dreams or something like dreams playing out in real life. Marty can attest to that.

Brother Arvin: Awesome.

Idyllopus Press: I’ll be interested to hear why you think you have them.

Brother Arvin: Yeah, it’s weird.

Brother Arvin: Anyhoo, I drove to the base and walked into the sheet metal shop and everyone was standing at the window that overlooked the flight line.

Brother Arvin: Everyone looked very concerned and I asked what was wrong. My shop chief said the RC-135, the exact one I dreamed about couldn’t get the nose gear down.

Brother Arvin: I almost fainted.

Brother Arvin: It was the same plane. We only had two RC’s, and *lots* of other KC-135’s. But we knew the RC’s by their tail numbers, of course. So that’s how I knew it was the same plane. This was a specific plane, which I was aware of while I was dreaming it.

Brother Arvin: The manual crank was locked up, too.

Brother Arvin: The plane actually had to be refueled because of it.

Brother Arvin: In flight, I mean.

Idyllopus Press: Had it been in flight already while you were asleep or afterward?

Brother Arvin: Yes, it would have been in flight. But not in distress. I think the actual event followed the dream event by probably three or four hours.

Brother Arvin: It didn’t crash in my dream, and it didn’t crash in reality. They finally got the crank working.

Brother Arvin: But it took them a long time. They were almost ready to crash-land it.

Idyllopus Press: Considering this and the dreams you had during childhood, did you, have you, ever feared dreaming?

Brother Arvin: No, I’ve always loved dreaming.

Brother Arvin: Probably three years later, I had another one. Equally strange, if not more so because I didn’t have a connection (that I’m aware of) to it.

Brother Arvin: I’d been out of the military, was working as a claims adjuster. I dreamed I was on board a passenger plane, seated by the wing.

Idyllopus Press: More planes!

Brother Arvin: Yes. We were descending. It was foggy.

Brother Arvin: There was a thump, like you often feel when landing, and everything was in slow motion as I looked out over the wing. Wildflowers and grass were pouring over the wing.

Brother Arvin: I woke up. Terrified.

Brother Arvin: It was awfully real.

Brother Arvin: Laura woke up and I told her what I’d dreamed.

Brother Arvin: And I calmed down and went back to sleep. I really don’t have *nightmares* very frequently. I mean, it’s very rare.

Brother Arvin: I went back to sleep, no dreams that I can recall. Probably slept another hour before the alarm went off.

Brother Arvin: I turned on NPR and the first story I heard was about a plane that overshot a runway – I’m pretty sure it was in Madrid, but I’m not absolutely certain – in fog.

Brother Arvin: As I remember it now, I believe it killed everyone on board.

Brother Arvin: I didn’t really examine the details. I knew that was what I was dreaming about.

Brother Arvin: When something is part of your nature, and you know it is, “evidence” and “proof” are pretty meaningless.

Idyllopus Press: You were confident.

Brother Arvin: Perfectly.

Idyllopus Press: I should relate to you my plane story, but it would be too long here.

Brother Arvin: I’d love to hear it sometime!

Idyllopus Press: Interesting that your experiences key in around flight. You said you felt you know why this was?

Brother Arvin: Oh, yes! I forgot that part.

Idyllopus Press: Or did you mean why you have the dreams in the first place?

Brother Arvin: Well, I don’t know *why* exactly, but there is a connection that I find, well, a part of the whole phenomenon.

Idyllopus Press: OK.

Brother Arvin: And it is this: March 1, 1962, is my birthday.

Brother Arvin: An American Airlines plane crashed in the Atlantic that day after taking off from Idlewild Airport in New York.

Brother Arvin: I found that out a few years ago. And, strangely enough, I was watching Mad Men on television tonight, and they referred to that crash.

Brother Arvin: It killed something like three hundred people or something like that. I forget.

Brother Arvin: I can’t explain why I think this transcends “coincidence” but it is somehow related.

Brother Arvin: I’ve been having dreams – intermittently – about plane crashes since I was really young. Like six or seven.

Brother Arvin: And I don’t ever recall having one that lacked a relationship with an actual event.

Idyllopus Press: Now, that’s interesting. Not one that didn’t correlate with a real event.

Brother Arvin: No. When I dream of an airplane – well, let’s just say that if I trust my instincts.

Brother Arvin: I wouldn’t *ever* consider boarding a plane after such a dream.

Idyllopus Press: Do you think there’s any connection between your…hmmm…receptivity to these dreams and your having witnessed UFOs twice?

Brother Arvin: I never even considered it.

Brother Arvin: I don’t now. It isn’t impossible.

Brother Arvin: Funny, though. I’ve never had a UFO dream.

Idyllopus Press: Really? Never?

Brother Arvin: Nope.

Idyllopus Press: Do you feel in your sightings of the UFOs that they are extrapersonal or is there a deeper connection?

Brother Arvin: I’m not sure I understand what you mean. I don’t get the sense that I’m any different from any other observer of UFO’s.

Brother Arvin: I have an open mind. I’m observant.

Idyllopus Press: What I mean is that so many times observers describe themselves as looking at, say, just the right moment.

Brother Arvin: I subscribe to Jung’s concept of synchronicity.

Idyllopus Press: That’s rather what I was asking about.

Brother Arvin: Gotcha.

Brother Arvin: That gets into an area I can’t really speculate too much upon.

Brother Arvin: I’ve already copped to not believing in coincidence, at least not as most people understand it.

“I’m not entirely comfortable with ideas about predestination – and, yet, there is an order to all systems even if we can’t comprehend it.”

Brother Arvin: I’m not entirely comfortable with ideas about predestination – and, yet, there is an order to all systems even if we can’t comprehend it.

Idyllopus Press: So you are saying that when you looked up at the right time to see the UFOs there may be more going on than your simply looking up at the right time?

Brother Arvin: Yes. There may be.

Idyllopus Press: I need to ask this now. Before I forget. How do you want to be identified in this? As Arvin?

Brother Arvin: Yeah, what the hell.

Brother Arvin: I’m not embarrassed or reluctant to share any of this with anyone.

Idyllopus Press: I’m not going to ask you the third question because you’ve already gone into all this in considerable detail.

Brother Arvin: I forgot what the third question was.

Brother Arvin: (I read the other interviews you’ve done. Cool!)

Idyllopus Press: I usually ask what story the person might like to tell.

Brother Arvin: Ha!

Brother Arvin: Yeah, those are among my best.

Idyllopus Press: Ah!

Idyllopus Press: Well, do you have one you want to tell?

Brother Arvin: Oh, I guess not. My wrist is kinda sore.

Idyllopus Press: And it’s getting late. Like I said…you’ve given a lot of detail. What an interview! Thank you!

Brother Arvin: You’re so welcome!

Published by

Juli Kearns

Juli Kearns is the author of Thunderbird and the Ball of Twine and Unending Wonders of a Subatomic World (or) In Search of the Great Penguin. She is also an artist/photographer, and the person behind the web alter of "Idyllopus Press".

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